Wednesday, March 15, 2006

Most Ill-Favored Nation

Courtesy of Warren Ellis' blog:

The Irish Falun Gong Information Centre received shocking, detailed information on Wednesday from a Chinese Communist Party insider documenting a concentration camp set up in Shenyang city, Liaoning province, expressly for Falun Gong practitioners.

The news comes on the heels of the U.S. Department of States 2005 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices, released Wednesday; the report documents continued, systematic abuses of the Falun Gong in China.

Information about the camp was relayed via audio recording from a former intelligence agent of the Chinese government. It is the first time news of the secret camps existence was disclosed to outsiders. The camp is said to hold over 6,000 Falun Gong adherents at any given time, and nobody has yet come out from it alive.

According to the source, it contains a crematorium, and an unusually large number of doctors work there reflecting the camps practice of killing prisoners for their organs, which are then sold for profit.

The source tried to convey the horror of what is happening in the concentration camp: Why was a crematorium built, and why are so many doctors housed there? & The answer is something unimaginable. You must be clear that a cremator for bodies is different than a burner used for sanitation purposes.

Located in the Sujiatun district of Shenyang city, the camp, dubbed the Sujiatun Concentration Camp, is surrounded by walls three meters high topped with electrified barbed wire. It is heavily fortified and said to be highly secret; locals know close to nothing about it. Those held inside are Falun Gong adherents from China’s three northeastern provinces as well as central China; many are said to have been transferred there from various labor camps. CCP authorities involved with the camp have learned many things from North Korea, according to the source.

This is deeply, terribly disturbing, and confirms our worst fears: that CCP authorities remain intent on eradicating Falun Gong, and in their desperation will go to any lengths,stated EFGIC spokesperson Mr. Gerald O’Connor. We need to be clear that the persecution has not gone away it has merely become darker and more hidden.

The Chinese government source spoke at length about the unlawful harvesting of organs in the Sujiatun facility. If Falun Dafa practitioners are sent to Sujiatun, he said, they have no chance of coming out - The CCP won’t let a prisoner consume food forever. So what are they up to, then? - the Falun Dafa practitioners are killed for their organs, which are sent off to various medical facilities. Organ sales is now a highly profitable business in China...

So let me see if I get this straight... the fact that the UAE's banking system is so sloppy, plus some wildly innacurate info, means that the UAE is a terrorist nation, but China can do something like this and still maintain their Most Favored Nation Status?

Someone, somewhere, needs to put down the crack.


Blogger bobby fletcher said...

China is not as bad as made out to be. I have been there, have you?

Here is more news that has since aired on the authenticity of the allegation:,5744,18669046%255E7583,00.html

"Initial investigations by researchers for a US congressional committee have identified the site at Sujiatun as a hospital, where it is suspected organ harvesting occurs but on nowhere near the scale claimed"

Now, if there is no concentration camp, rather isolated instances of abuse and irregularity contrary to Chinese law, then there exists a very different reality than what's alleged.

The congressional committee on International relations, Asia Pacific subcommittee has been contacted. However they seem to be unwilling to help. It may be our government's wish to remain ambiguous on this issue.

My opinion is if this allegation is false, we need to make that clear, so we in the West can not be accused of allowing our ambiguity to be exploited for some nefarious, well-timed, political indictment.

Looks like efforts may be needed to make FOIA request to congressional committee. Private citizens without substantial resource and time will likely meet a lost cause.

There are also many questionable issues surround this allegation:

- Many details about the alleged camp site appears to be lifted from the hospital website's About page, including the alleged number of victims, 6000, which is part of the admission statistics published by the hospital in 2005 (2nd paragraph of About page).

- Hong Kong newspaper TaKungPao investigated the allegations and came up empty:
1) Reporters visited the hospital; the only underground structure found is the septic tank:

2) Reporters contacted Lanzhou University, but alleged arrested students' names do not exists in student registry:

- It appears the surprise discovery of an underground tunnel built by japanese army during 1905-1920 period, back in August 2005 could be the inspiration for this twist of fact.

The tunnel was sealed up by the Japanese then and unknown until it was discovered by a photographer from the 918 WWII museum working in Sujiatun.

When it was discovered in 2005 the tunnel was half *under water*, above link has a picture of it so everyone can get a good idea how this tunnel can, before its discovery in 2001, hold 6000 people,
plus an army of skilled transplant surgeons, nurses, 500-700 jail guards - equipment, rations, and supplies for nearly 10,000 people - all of them eating drinking defecating on top of each other.

And the amazing thing is Sujiatun is a populated close suburb of Shenyang city, with over 150 foreign company and 50-60 foreign family too - "nobody goes in and out of the concentration camp"?

More info about the tunnel, including dimension of the facility:

"after jumping down and passing two holes, we arrive at the entrance of the underground facility. The hallway is 2 meters long and only wide enough for one person. After the hallway is a wider 8 square meter area. After 5 meters we arrrive at 3 meter wide, 2 meter tall underground structure. Cement covers the walls, it's flooded with water 1 meter deep. the structure is about 4 meter under ground, with some of the walls crumbling.

According to Wang TsenJie who discovered it, from above ground estimation it is 2000 meter long [with widest point @ 3 meter], half completely flooded. Water is clear with fish that have no eyes. Some ammunition and human remains have been found [human remain from WWII.]"

(get help from if you can't read Chinese. It ain't a billion people's fault.)

(Just for comparison Guantanamo Bay is a huge base, and it only holds 700 detainees.)

4:26 PM  
Blogger J. Edward Tremlett said...

"China is not as bad as made out to be. I have been there, have you?"

Just Hong Kong, twice.

If the allegation is proven to be bogus, I'll retract my part in it. But it doesn't change the fact that there's a lot of hanky-panky with the bodies of the condemned in that country.


8:15 PM  
Blogger bobby fletcher said...

"hanky panky" is not "worse than Auschwitz", is it?

(do people even know how many people were killed in Auschwitz?)

If we in the West can not be precise with the facts, only resort to some well-timed, emotionally satisfying indictment, in order to further our agenda, why should the Chinese take us seriousely?

10:45 AM  
Blogger J. Edward Tremlett said...


I never said this was "better" or "worse" than Auschwitz. If true, this is also an atrocity, and atrocities have to taken for what they are - otherwise you get into the "worse things happen every day in El Salvador" trap.

I really couldn't give a monkey's ding if the Chinese take us seriously or not when blogs spread early, unconfirmed word on what might turn out to be an exaggeration, or outright lie. It says enough of what we DO know of China's human rights practices that this story has at least the ring of truth, even if the particulars on the ground are in question.

What REALLY matters is that the American government takes China's documented human rights abuses seriously, and then take those abuses into account while reconsidering their most favored nation status.


PS. I suppose China isn't as "bad as made out to be" until you're being shot in the back of the head for offenses that hardly warrant the death penalty by any civilized standard of jurisprudence.

12:45 PM  
Blogger J. Edward Tremlett said...

And let's see what our Country Reports on Human Rights has to say about China.

The following human rights problems were reported:

*denial of the right to change the government
*physical abuse resulting in deaths in custody
*torture and coerced confessions of prisoners
*harassment, detention, and imprisonment of those perceived as threatening to party and government authority
*arbitrary arrest and detention, including nonjudicial administrative detention, reeducation-through-labor, psychiatric detention, and extended or incommunicado pretrial detention
*a politically controlled judiciary and a lack of due process in certain cases, especially those involving dissidents
*detention of political prisoners, including those convicted of disclosing state secrets and subversion, those convicted under the now-abolished crime of counterrevolution, and those jailed in connection with the 1989 Tiananmen demonstrations
*house arrest and other nonjudicially approved surveillance and detention of dissidents
*monitoring of citizens' mail, telephone and electronic communications
*use of a coercive birth limitation policy, in some cases resulting in forced abortion and sterilization
*increased restrictions on freedom of speech and the press; closure of newspapers and journals; banning of politically sensitive books, periodicals, and films; and jamming of some broadcast signals
restrictions on the freedom of assembly, including detention and abuse of demonstrators and petitioners
*restrictions on religious freedom, control of religious groups, and harassment and detention of unregistered religious groups
*restrictions on the freedom of travel, especially for politically sensitive and underground religious figures
*forcible repatriation of North Koreans and inadequate protection of many refugees
*severe government corruption
increased scrutiny, harassment and restrictions on independent domestic and foreign nongovernmental organization (NGO) operations
*trafficking in women and children
societal discrimination against women, minorities, and persons with disabilities
*cultural and religious repression of minorities in Tibetan areas and Muslim areas of Xinjiang
restriction of labor rights, including freedom of association, the right to organize and bargain collectively, and worker health and safety
*forced labor, including prison labor

"Not as bad as made out to be," huh?


1:16 PM  
Blogger bobby fletcher said...

The "worse than Auschwitz" characterization came from Falun Gong.

11:59 AM  
Blogger bobby fletcher said...


"even if the particulars on the ground are in question"

comment is exactly what I'm talking about. Sure it is emotionally satisfying, but is it factual? Ring true ain't true is it?

12:02 PM  
Blogger J. Edward Tremlett said...

How on earth can passing along reported atrocities be called "emotionally satisfying?" It's outright sickening that we live in a world where something like that could possibly be going on.

Emotional satisfaction would come from the cessation of Chinese oppression against Falun Gong, and any other minority group within its borders.


7:31 PM  

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